1 00:00:17,892 --> 00:00:21,312 Murderers they usually know their victims. 2 00:00:24,816 --> 00:00:29,571 However, it rarely happens that the whole family is involved. 3 00:00:31,448 --> 00:00:32,282 Emergency service. 4 00:00:32,365 --> 00:00:34,492 Suddenly he started screaming. 5 00:00:34,576 --> 00:00:35,827 "What are you doing?" 6 00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:38,872 It sounded like a gunshot. He has a two-year-old daughter with him. 7 00:00:42,375 --> 00:00:44,794 We had no idea what happened. 8 00:00:44,878 --> 00:00:47,505 Who is the suspect? Who is the victim? 9 00:00:49,382 --> 00:00:53,303 EX FROM HELL 10 00:00:56,347 --> 00:00:58,600 I'm happy to be alive. 11 00:01:00,393 --> 00:01:02,187 If they got away, 12 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:04,939 my daughter wouldn't know who I am. 13 00:01:06,733 --> 00:01:11,488 But I accepted the challenge and persevered. 14 00:01:14,491 --> 00:01:17,577 ALAMEDA, CALIFORNIA 15 00:01:19,245 --> 00:01:21,414 In the early 2000s 16 00:01:21,498 --> 00:01:25,251 I started working at Alameda County Social Services 17 00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:29,130 as an appraiser in the assembly Medi-Cal's Medicaid program. 18 00:01:29,714 --> 00:01:32,509 I was doing work for the first time 19 00:01:32,592 --> 00:01:35,470 which included helping people extensively. 20 00:01:36,554 --> 00:01:39,557 I'm not very social, 21 00:01:39,641 --> 00:01:43,144 but i had friends which I visited occasionally. 22 00:01:45,688 --> 00:01:49,818 We usually hung out at home and played games on Xbox and Playstation. 23 00:01:50,318 --> 00:01:53,488 We have been friends for almost 30 years. 24 00:01:54,572 --> 00:01:56,991 I guess he thought we were kindred spirits. 25 00:01:57,951 --> 00:02:01,287 In fact, we were both weirdos. 26 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:04,749 Eric is very intelligent. 27 00:02:05,416 --> 00:02:07,669 He has an encyclopedic mind. 28 00:02:08,211 --> 00:02:11,506 He is a good person and a good friend. All in all, a good guy. 29 00:02:12,006 --> 00:02:15,844 Whoever has a problem with him it's probably his own fault. 30 00:02:18,388 --> 00:02:22,684 I was trained in 2002. 31 00:02:22,767 --> 00:02:25,603 I happened to sit next to Mei. 32 00:02:27,021 --> 00:02:29,691 We started talking and we got along well. 33 00:02:31,442 --> 00:02:33,153 Mei was a fun colleague. 34 00:02:33,653 --> 00:02:35,697 She was warm and open. 35 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:38,449 She made friends with many people in the office. 36 00:02:39,033 --> 00:02:42,203 In October 2002 37 00:02:42,829 --> 00:02:46,332 Mei invited me to go hiking with some other colleagues. 38 00:02:47,292 --> 00:02:49,043 When Mei came to pick me up, 39 00:02:49,127 --> 00:02:51,880 her daughter Rosa was at the wheel. 40 00:02:51,963 --> 00:02:55,592 Then Mei introduced me to Rosa. 41 00:02:57,635 --> 00:03:00,430 Rosa was an engineer in a technology company. 42 00:03:01,139 --> 00:03:06,269 She had a strong, logical and Highly analytical mind. 43 00:03:07,228 --> 00:03:09,189 I was fascinated 44 00:03:09,272 --> 00:03:12,400 her stories about business in Silicon Valley. 45 00:03:13,067 --> 00:03:18,781 He seemed to be enjoying himself in my silly jokes and quips. 46 00:03:20,867 --> 00:03:25,288 So, I spent the day with a beautiful and very smart woman. 47 00:03:25,788 --> 00:03:28,666 I felt butterflies in my stomach. 48 00:03:30,126 --> 00:03:33,922 I gathered my courage and asked her out. 49 00:03:36,299 --> 00:03:38,760 We had a lot of fun in the following months. 50 00:03:39,344 --> 00:03:42,430 There were trips and many nice outings. 51 00:03:43,181 --> 00:03:45,141 I could see he was excited. 52 00:03:45,225 --> 00:03:47,101 He was bursting with joy. 53 00:03:48,561 --> 00:03:50,146 I was glad of that. 54 00:03:55,568 --> 00:03:57,528 Eric and I are very close. 55 00:03:57,612 --> 00:04:00,073 We talk at least once a week. 56 00:04:01,074 --> 00:04:02,450 He seemed happy. 57 00:04:04,744 --> 00:04:06,329 That's why I was happy too. 58 00:04:07,038 --> 00:04:10,333 It seemed to be getting serious fast. 59 00:04:11,417 --> 00:04:15,296 He was socially awkward. 60 00:04:16,631 --> 00:04:20,260 Rosa was his first real girlfriend. 61 00:04:23,221 --> 00:04:26,641 I soon met her. 62 00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:29,560 I asked her questions. 63 00:04:29,644 --> 00:04:31,729 She would whisper in Erica's ear… 64 00:04:34,315 --> 00:04:35,900 and he would answer. 65 00:04:38,152 --> 00:04:41,239 Prišla bi mu, zaklonila lice dlanom 66 00:04:42,323 --> 00:04:44,284 and spoke something in his ear. 67 00:04:45,034 --> 00:04:47,120 I didn't understand what it was about. 68 00:04:48,454 --> 00:04:50,331 I'm not a very friendly person, 69 00:04:50,415 --> 00:04:53,001 but I was friendlier than her. 70 00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:55,753 At least that's what I thought at the time. 71 00:04:57,088 --> 00:04:59,424 At first I thought she was shy, 72 00:04:59,507 --> 00:05:04,053 but now I know it is so possible to control the people in the room. 73 00:05:05,054 --> 00:05:07,974 I remember our phone calls. 74 00:05:08,808 --> 00:05:11,102 Rosa always eavesdropped. 75 00:05:11,686 --> 00:05:15,356 He had the password with which he would indicate to me that he was eavesdropping. 76 00:05:16,274 --> 00:05:19,444 She was behaving strangely. 77 00:05:21,404 --> 00:05:24,282 She caused an unpleasant feeling in me. 78 00:05:25,992 --> 00:05:29,287 I felt some tension under the surface. 79 00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:32,707 I didn't want to say anything. 80 00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:34,917 I thought that wouldn't be nice. 81 00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:37,545 That's why I kept quiet. 82 00:05:39,130 --> 00:05:41,507 You should beware of quiet people. 83 00:05:43,551 --> 00:05:45,803 OCTOBER 2000 84 00:05:48,514 --> 00:05:52,852 When Valentine's Day 2004 came, 85 00:05:52,935 --> 00:05:55,772 since that is the era when love is in the air, 86 00:05:56,814 --> 00:05:58,399 I proposed to her. 87 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:02,236 When she agreed, I was ecstatic. 88 00:06:05,073 --> 00:06:09,160 I called my sister and parents, and then grandmother. 89 00:06:09,744 --> 00:06:11,037 Everyone was excited. 90 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,332 Grandma was thrilled with the possibility 91 00:06:14,415 --> 00:06:16,376 that she will become a great-grandmother. 92 00:06:17,794 --> 00:06:22,340 My grandmother's name was Selma, but everyone called her Sally. 93 00:06:23,633 --> 00:06:27,345 I was very close to Sally since I was a child. 94 00:06:27,970 --> 00:06:29,847 She was a wonderful grandmother. 95 00:06:30,431 --> 00:06:32,266 She was very generous. 96 00:06:32,350 --> 00:06:34,852 In addition, she was very warm-hearted. 97 00:06:36,521 --> 00:06:40,566 Sally was much more social than I ever was. 98 00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:47,698 She wanted to talk to Rosa about wedding plans. 99 00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:50,076 She was full of energy. 100 00:06:50,159 --> 00:06:53,579 My grandmother was there then in the late eighties. 101 00:06:53,663 --> 00:06:55,623 She wasn't usually this energetic. 102 00:06:56,207 --> 00:06:57,959 It was unusual. 103 00:06:59,710 --> 00:07:04,882 After Rosa's and my engagement Mei seemed happy and excited. 104 00:07:04,966 --> 00:07:08,803 She had many ideas about what we can do. 105 00:07:09,971 --> 00:07:14,475 Rosa and Mei were very close. Mei often helped her. 106 00:07:15,017 --> 00:07:19,647 She was a strong personality and Rosa usually listened to her. 107 00:07:20,231 --> 00:07:22,024 Me too. 108 00:07:22,108 --> 00:07:25,528 I would have followed Rosa anywhere. 109 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:28,406 I thought everything was perfect. 110 00:07:28,489 --> 00:07:30,158 I had a good job. 111 00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:31,909 I was in a great relationship. 112 00:07:33,578 --> 00:07:37,039 Beloved wife and beloved family. 113 00:07:37,623 --> 00:07:39,041 Everything was perfect. 114 00:07:39,584 --> 00:07:41,919 It was a great period of my life. 115 00:07:43,045 --> 00:07:46,215 Unfortunately, it didn't last long. 116 00:07:46,299 --> 00:07:50,303 Not long after that, everything went wrong. 117 00:07:50,845 --> 00:07:52,263 FOURTEENTH OF FEBRUARY 2004. 118 00:07:54,682 --> 00:07:56,017 APRIL 2, 2005. 119 00:07:59,353 --> 00:08:02,732 Rosa and I got married in April 2005. 120 00:08:03,941 --> 00:08:09,155 I was overjoyed while watching her how he comes to the altar and takes my hand. 121 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:11,282 We took our vows. 122 00:08:12,825 --> 00:08:18,414 I wanted my life to always be like that. 123 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:23,753 Mom was beaming. 124 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:27,215 Oh, yes. She was very happy for them. 125 00:08:28,382 --> 00:08:30,718 I think in the beginning 126 00:08:30,801 --> 00:08:32,762 everyone wants to think only the best. 127 00:08:34,013 --> 00:08:35,640 Mom was certainly like that. 128 00:08:41,229 --> 00:08:44,899 When we came to Hawaii for our honeymoon, 129 00:08:44,982 --> 00:08:48,778 I was hoping that Rosa would relax. 130 00:08:48,861 --> 00:08:52,323 She was under a lot of stress during the wedding preparations. 131 00:08:52,406 --> 00:08:53,824 The plans were exhausting. 132 00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:57,620 We often argued. 133 00:08:58,913 --> 00:09:01,374 She was constantly upset. 134 00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:07,922 We had a big fight after a week of honeymoon. 135 00:09:10,049 --> 00:09:14,136 During that argument, she threatened me with her fist. 136 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,222 She missed me. 137 00:09:16,973 --> 00:09:21,143 But that was the first warning sign. 138 00:09:25,523 --> 00:09:29,151 When we got married and started living together, 139 00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:34,448 I was already heavily in debt because of the wedding and the honeymoon. 140 00:09:36,033 --> 00:09:39,203 I worked, but Rosa didn't. 141 00:09:39,287 --> 00:09:41,414 Money problems started. 142 00:09:41,497 --> 00:09:43,833 We often fought about it. 143 00:09:45,126 --> 00:09:47,211 She was manipulative with money. 144 00:09:47,295 --> 00:09:51,882 She made him earn money. 145 00:09:51,966 --> 00:09:56,971 It almost seemed to me that Eric is her cash cow. 146 00:09:58,222 --> 00:10:00,850 She was always angry. 147 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:02,810 It didn't stop. 148 00:10:02,893 --> 00:10:05,980 There was always another fight. 149 00:10:06,731 --> 00:10:09,692 After a while I started to get scared. 150 00:10:10,192 --> 00:10:11,902 What will fire her up next? 151 00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:15,448 Sometimes it was scary to go home. 152 00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:20,411 She never resorted to physical violence. 153 00:10:21,078 --> 00:10:25,458 But after the events in Hawaii I knew she wouldn't hesitate. 154 00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:32,548 The dew began to separate Eric from his family. 155 00:10:34,383 --> 00:10:36,927 Over time, Rosa demanded 156 00:10:37,011 --> 00:10:41,349 to stop talking with friends and family. 157 00:10:41,432 --> 00:10:45,728 To make her happy, I moved away from friends and family. 158 00:10:47,521 --> 00:10:50,066 I didn't talk to grandma. 159 00:10:50,149 --> 00:10:51,984 I didn't talk to my parents. 160 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:55,696 Eric disappeared from my life. 161 00:10:56,947 --> 00:11:03,162 She was jealous of everyone with whom Eric was associated. 162 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:08,793 She used tactics "divide and conquer" on Eric. 163 00:11:12,463 --> 00:11:16,842 Rosa got pregnant a few months after the wedding. 164 00:11:18,302 --> 00:11:21,263 I was looking forward to becoming a father. 165 00:11:21,347 --> 00:11:24,850 We talked about a traditional Catholic family. 166 00:11:24,934 --> 00:11:27,269 Husband, pregnant wife, six children. 167 00:11:27,353 --> 00:11:29,563 I was looking forward to it. 168 00:11:29,647 --> 00:11:31,399 JUNE TWENTY-FIRST, 2006. 169 00:11:32,608 --> 00:11:37,029 My daughter was born on June 21, 2006. 170 00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:40,366 At first, being a father was scary. 171 00:11:40,449 --> 00:11:42,702 I've never had a child before, 172 00:11:42,785 --> 00:11:45,871 a fragile being that depends on me. 173 00:11:45,955 --> 00:11:50,751 I was constantly afraid to take her in my arms. 174 00:11:50,835 --> 00:11:52,670 But it was fun. 175 00:11:52,753 --> 00:11:55,047 I enjoyed spending time with her. 176 00:11:58,801 --> 00:12:03,764 I was working two jobs when our daughter was born. 177 00:12:03,848 --> 00:12:05,641 I worked during the day 178 00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:10,229 at his job in social services Alameda County from 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. 179 00:12:11,439 --> 00:12:16,819 From 23.30 to 8.00, 180 00:12:16,902 --> 00:12:21,824 as well as on weekends, I worked in a pharmacy. 181 00:12:21,907 --> 00:12:25,077 I slept a little. 182 00:12:27,037 --> 00:12:28,873 I took vows seriously, 183 00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:32,001 as well as his role as a family man. 184 00:12:32,084 --> 00:12:33,794 I wanted us to succeed. 185 00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:36,213 I was doing my best. 186 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,010 But the quarrels became more and more serious. 187 00:12:42,636 --> 00:12:45,306 She started threatening divorce. 188 00:12:46,515 --> 00:12:50,269 That shocked me because she claimed that she is a devout Catholic. 189 00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,730 They should not divorce. 190 00:12:53,564 --> 00:12:54,482 She hurt me. 191 00:12:55,816 --> 00:12:57,318 She played with him. 192 00:12:57,401 --> 00:12:59,195 "Do what I want or I'm leaving." 193 00:12:59,278 --> 00:13:00,821 It was manipulation. 194 00:13:01,322 --> 00:13:05,785 It was difficult because I really wanted us to succeed. 195 00:13:05,868 --> 00:13:07,787 I loved that woman very much 196 00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:11,415 and I wanted to spend my life with her. 197 00:13:11,999 --> 00:13:14,877 I really wanted to make her happy. 198 00:13:15,544 --> 00:13:20,049 For a while I felt as a failure because I failed to do so. 199 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:26,639 Rosa is gone shortly after the birth of my daughter. 200 00:13:28,015 --> 00:13:31,018 She started spending time in his parents' house. 201 00:13:31,101 --> 00:13:33,896 When I came home, they were gone. 202 00:13:35,397 --> 00:13:38,400 What was intermittent at first 203 00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:40,611 it has become almost daily. 204 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,575 I was lonely 205 00:13:47,117 --> 00:13:50,204 and it was hard for me that I can't see my daughter more often. 206 00:13:50,287 --> 00:13:53,165 I started having problems with mental health. 207 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:55,167 I suffered from severe depression. 208 00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:58,295 I had to take medication for it. 209 00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:00,506 It was difficult. 210 00:14:01,006 --> 00:14:02,758 MARCH 2007 211 00:14:02,842 --> 00:14:05,302 AFTER TWO YEARS OF MARRIAGE 212 00:14:06,637 --> 00:14:11,392 In March 2007 Rosa and I separated. 213 00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:17,022 I didn't want to separate. She just kicked me out. 214 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:25,030 At that time, Rosa had full control over our funds. 215 00:14:25,531 --> 00:14:26,949 She had a house. 216 00:14:27,032 --> 00:14:29,285 She had a child. 217 00:14:29,368 --> 00:14:32,121 She had bank accounts. 218 00:14:32,705 --> 00:14:34,415 I had nowhere to go. 219 00:14:37,418 --> 00:14:41,797 He showed up unannounced at my mom's door. 220 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:45,092 We were surprised to see him again. 221 00:14:45,801 --> 00:14:50,681 Fortunately for me, my grandmother was so good that she took me in 222 00:14:50,764 --> 00:14:54,435 although she had no reason to 223 00:14:54,518 --> 00:14:57,646 because I moved away from my whole family. 224 00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:02,443 My grandmother was a good and kind woman. 225 00:15:02,526 --> 00:15:05,529 She was ready to forgive me and she took me in. 226 00:15:06,113 --> 00:15:10,451 I think he's starting to open up 227 00:15:11,035 --> 00:15:13,495 and that he felt great relief. 228 00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:15,956 I am. 229 00:15:19,585 --> 00:15:22,254 My grandmother's boyfriend was named Lester. 230 00:15:23,172 --> 00:15:25,424 Lester adored her. 231 00:15:27,259 --> 00:15:32,556 I think it's his grandmother loved and appreciated it very much 232 00:15:33,307 --> 00:15:34,892 that he is attentive to her. 233 00:15:34,975 --> 00:15:36,560 She met him 234 00:15:36,644 --> 00:15:39,897 a few years after his grandfather's death. 235 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,316 Sometimes they stayed with him, 236 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:44,818 and sometimes he would sleep over at her place. 237 00:15:45,694 --> 00:15:47,947 They would usually spend four days together. 238 00:15:48,447 --> 00:15:50,240 When they weren't together, 239 00:15:51,617 --> 00:15:54,620 she organized the time so they can hear each other on the phone. 240 00:15:56,455 --> 00:16:00,626 You could set the clock according to the time when they heard each other. 241 00:16:00,709 --> 00:16:03,629 She was very accurate about that. 242 00:16:04,254 --> 00:16:09,843 It became an important part of her life, 243 00:16:09,927 --> 00:16:13,681 and it became an important part of this case. 244 00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:17,893 JUNE 2007 THREE MONTHS AFTER SEPARATION 245 00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:21,021 At that time 246 00:16:21,105 --> 00:16:23,649 Rosa did not allow me to see my daughter. 247 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:29,113 I asked her if I could come to visit for her first birthday. 248 00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:32,032 Rosa rudely rejected me. 249 00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:36,161 Then I got angry. 250 00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:40,124 I decided 251 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:43,043 that I will ask for custody. 252 00:16:45,921 --> 00:16:48,716 Of course, it got nasty. 253 00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:52,803 Rosa sent an email to my office. 254 00:16:53,303 --> 00:16:56,390 She said I stopped taking my medicine 255 00:16:56,473 --> 00:16:59,268 and that I will shoot people there. 256 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:05,149 I was suspended from work until they investigate that claim. 257 00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:09,153 I never had a gun 258 00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:13,824 and I have never violated your medical protocol. 259 00:17:15,075 --> 00:17:16,869 I didn't want to lose my job. 260 00:17:16,952 --> 00:17:20,831 I had a lawyer's fee and other bills I had to pay. 261 00:17:22,124 --> 00:17:25,627 The investigation lasted several months. 262 00:17:26,962 --> 00:17:31,133 They ordered me to see a psychiatrist. 263 00:17:32,342 --> 00:17:35,554 He freed me from doubt and I could go back to work. 264 00:17:36,889 --> 00:17:39,391 The custody action could continue. 265 00:17:40,642 --> 00:17:43,228 The judge awarded me half custody. 266 00:17:44,021 --> 00:17:45,230 I was very happy. 267 00:17:46,148 --> 00:17:48,609 When I finally saw my daughter, 268 00:17:48,692 --> 00:17:49,818 I was in shock. 269 00:17:49,902 --> 00:17:52,988 She was a baby the last time i saw her 270 00:17:53,947 --> 00:17:56,158 and now she was already walking. 271 00:17:56,992 --> 00:17:58,660 I missed the first steps 272 00:17:59,703 --> 00:18:03,916 and other important events, which hurt me. 273 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:09,463 A few months after I got half custody, 274 00:18:09,963 --> 00:18:12,466 Rosa made a new accusation against me. 275 00:18:14,051 --> 00:18:19,139 She called the police and said to sexually abuse our daughter. 276 00:18:22,226 --> 00:18:24,228 She used it as an excuse 277 00:18:24,311 --> 00:18:27,981 in order to lose custody which the court awarded me. 278 00:18:29,316 --> 00:18:30,776 It was terrifying. 279 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:37,366 No one sympathizes with a child abuser. 280 00:18:38,033 --> 00:18:41,286 That accusation was very damaging. 281 00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:44,039 I was constantly in fear. 282 00:18:44,123 --> 00:18:45,916 I could have lost my job. 283 00:18:46,583 --> 00:18:48,293 I would never see my daughter again, 284 00:18:48,377 --> 00:18:51,797 and if they believed her, I could lose my freedom. 285 00:18:52,506 --> 00:18:54,633 Rosa tried very hard 286 00:18:54,716 --> 00:18:58,345 portray him as a monster, which he is not. 287 00:18:58,428 --> 00:19:00,973 Those accusations were a bunch of nonsense. 288 00:19:01,849 --> 00:19:02,975 I was amazed. 289 00:19:03,058 --> 00:19:05,602 I was shocked that she went overboard like that. 290 00:19:06,687 --> 00:19:09,523 At the time I believed Rosa's goal 291 00:19:09,606 --> 00:19:11,817 obtaining custody 292 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:14,278 because he wants to be a parent. 293 00:19:14,987 --> 00:19:17,739 I think Mei wanted grandchildren 294 00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:23,829 and probably persuaded Rosa to start a relationship with me. 295 00:19:24,371 --> 00:19:27,958 Mei knew me from work and I think she liked me. 296 00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:31,420 But Rosa just wanted me to leave. 297 00:19:32,838 --> 00:19:35,257 It seemed that he would do everything he could 298 00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:37,301 to get what he wants. 299 00:19:37,384 --> 00:19:38,802 And it is. 300 00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:46,685 I'm Casey Bates. 301 00:19:46,768 --> 00:19:51,190 I was a deputy district attorney in Alameda County in 2011. 302 00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:54,818 During the judicial investigation 303 00:19:54,902 --> 00:19:57,613 it was determined that Eric never had 304 00:19:57,696 --> 00:20:01,074 inappropriate sexual intercourse with your child. 305 00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:04,328 The accusation was completely fabricated. 306 00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:12,711 Contrary to Rosa's expectations, the court therefore took away her right to custody 307 00:20:12,794 --> 00:20:14,588 and handed it to Eric. 308 00:20:15,088 --> 00:20:18,091 The balance of power has completely changed. 309 00:20:20,427 --> 00:20:24,431 Over time, it is Rosa was less and less willing to cooperate. 310 00:20:24,514 --> 00:20:29,353 She started refusing to do it what she was ordered to do. 311 00:20:30,145 --> 00:20:32,064 People didn't trust her anymore. 312 00:20:32,147 --> 00:20:35,484 Because of this, she became more belligerent. 313 00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:40,197 She clashed the most with a family court mediator. 314 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,824 In almost every report he submitted 315 00:20:42,908 --> 00:20:45,786 there was talk of some conflict with her. 316 00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:50,582 Court started giving me greater custody rights. 317 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:58,048 What started as a half-and-half guardianship it turned into 60-40 and then 70-30. 318 00:20:58,131 --> 00:21:05,055 In the end I got 85% in physical and 100% legal guardianship. 319 00:21:08,225 --> 00:21:13,355 By his behavior she showed herself in the right light. 320 00:21:14,648 --> 00:21:20,237 She turned the case to her own detriment. 321 00:21:22,739 --> 00:21:27,786 At that time, Mei was irreplaceable 322 00:21:27,869 --> 00:21:30,163 because Rosa and I didn't talk. 323 00:21:30,664 --> 00:21:32,207 Mei became the go-between. 324 00:21:33,041 --> 00:21:37,921 Then she worked in another office. 325 00:21:38,672 --> 00:21:40,966 I haven't had much contact with Mei. 326 00:21:41,049 --> 00:21:45,220 When I did, they were polite and cordial. 327 00:21:45,304 --> 00:21:48,390 Mei never raised her voice 328 00:21:48,473 --> 00:21:50,434 or showed that she resents me. 329 00:21:50,517 --> 00:21:54,438 Later I found out that she resented me, only she didn't express it. 330 00:21:57,232 --> 00:22:03,405 At that time, grandma is always there tried to be with my daughter. 331 00:22:05,657 --> 00:22:08,035 My daughter loved to play 332 00:22:08,118 --> 00:22:10,704 while she, grandma and I were sitting on the bed. 333 00:22:10,787 --> 00:22:14,499 She rolled left and right between us, 334 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:19,421 the grandmother shouted: "You tricksters!", 335 00:22:19,504 --> 00:22:20,922 and my daughter was laughing. 336 00:22:22,007 --> 00:22:23,967 It was a fun time. 337 00:22:24,051 --> 00:22:27,429 I keep those memories in my heart. 338 00:22:33,352 --> 00:22:36,355 SEVENTH OF JANUARY 2009, 16.00 339 00:22:37,731 --> 00:22:40,859 Hi Sally. This is Les. It's four o'clock. 340 00:22:41,902 --> 00:22:43,904 See you later. Hi. 341 00:22:45,113 --> 00:22:48,867 On that day, January 7, 2009, 342 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:51,828 Sally's boyfriend Les called 343 00:22:51,912 --> 00:22:54,539 for their afternoon socializing. 344 00:22:54,623 --> 00:22:56,291 She did not answer the phone. 345 00:22:56,833 --> 00:22:59,753 He got worried. After a few minutes he called again. 346 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:02,381 Hi Sally. Me again. 347 00:23:03,173 --> 00:23:06,009 It's Wednesday afternoon. It's four o'clock. 348 00:23:07,052 --> 00:23:07,928 He called again. 349 00:23:08,011 --> 00:23:11,264 Hi Sally. Where are you? 350 00:23:12,265 --> 00:23:13,433 It is now 16.15. 351 00:23:13,517 --> 00:23:16,728 He sounded increasingly upset every time he called. 352 00:23:17,479 --> 00:23:19,356 I keep trying to reach you. 353 00:23:19,439 --> 00:23:24,444 There was growing concern in his voice. 354 00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:26,363 Sally, where are you? 355 00:23:27,781 --> 00:23:29,032 It's five o'clock. 356 00:23:29,116 --> 00:23:32,744 It was clear that he truly cares for Sally. 357 00:23:32,828 --> 00:23:36,540 At that point he called Jeff and Ute Rowe, 358 00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:40,877 his son and daughter-in-law, 359 00:23:41,461 --> 00:23:43,964 to go to her and check if she is okay. 360 00:23:46,925 --> 00:23:49,761 In January 2009 361 00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:53,014 I was a sergeant in the Dublin Police. 362 00:23:53,932 --> 00:23:57,978 Jeff and Ute went there because they were on good terms with Sally. 363 00:23:58,770 --> 00:24:00,105 They knocked on the door. 364 00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:02,023 No one came. 365 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:06,570 After that they saw Eric Hill approaching home. 366 00:24:09,448 --> 00:24:11,992 When I stopped in front of the house, 367 00:24:12,617 --> 00:24:17,664 Lester's son Jeff and his wife Ute they started towards me. 368 00:24:19,416 --> 00:24:21,460 Jeff introduced himself. 369 00:24:21,543 --> 00:24:24,713 I had a bad feeling. 370 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:30,093 At that time my grandmother was increasingly poor health. 371 00:24:30,177 --> 00:24:33,263 I was worried something had happened to her. 372 00:24:34,222 --> 00:24:37,476 Stroke or heart attack. Such a thing. 373 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:43,982 Eric, his daughter, Jeff and Ute they went through the garage door 374 00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:45,650 and entered the house. 375 00:24:46,651 --> 00:24:48,445 Jeff readily stayed down. 376 00:24:49,112 --> 00:24:52,532 Eric went upstairs with his daughter. 377 00:24:55,827 --> 00:24:57,621 When I went upstairs, 378 00:24:57,704 --> 00:24:59,247 I didn't see her in bed. 379 00:24:59,331 --> 00:25:03,084 I did not see her in the room or in the bathroom. 380 00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:06,338 I didn't see grandma anywhere. 381 00:25:07,881 --> 00:25:11,051 I heard a sound behind me. 382 00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:15,305 Then I saw Mei. 383 00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:21,561 I was shocked. I asked her what she was doing there. 384 00:25:21,645 --> 00:25:23,480 She said 385 00:25:25,106 --> 00:25:26,608 that my grandmother called her. 386 00:25:28,944 --> 00:25:33,657 I knew something was wrong, but immediately I started to panic. 387 00:25:35,617 --> 00:25:38,828 Mei said grandma was down in the garage, 388 00:25:38,912 --> 00:25:41,122 which made no sense. 389 00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:42,415 Not at that time of day. 390 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,587 I put my daughter down and asked Mei to watch over her. 391 00:25:49,422 --> 00:25:50,423 When I ran out, 392 00:25:51,550 --> 00:25:54,386 Rosa jumped out of the nursery 393 00:25:55,053 --> 00:25:56,805 dressed in a black raincoat. 394 00:25:58,848 --> 00:26:02,352 And then she shot me with a taser. 395 00:26:03,812 --> 00:26:06,356 I felt a sharp pain in the back of my head. 396 00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:09,025 Mei hit me with the stick. 397 00:26:10,527 --> 00:26:11,486 I fell. 398 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,285 Jeff and Ute heard the argument, 399 00:26:18,368 --> 00:26:21,705 and then they heard a sound which they thought was a shot. 400 00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:25,375 They left the house to safety, 401 00:26:25,458 --> 00:26:29,212 ran to the neighbor and told him to call 911. 402 00:26:29,963 --> 00:26:31,089 Emergency service. 403 00:26:31,172 --> 00:26:35,010 The neighbor has problems. We hear shouting from the house. 404 00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:36,553 What are they shouting? 405 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:38,388 "What are you doing?" 406 00:26:38,471 --> 00:26:39,848 He says, "What are you doing?" 407 00:26:41,933 --> 00:26:44,728 It sounded like a gunshot. I don't know if he really was, 408 00:26:44,811 --> 00:26:46,521 but someone is in the house. 409 00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:48,690 He has a two-year-old daughter with him. 410 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,572 Rosa was kicking me, and Mei was hitting me with a bat. 411 00:26:55,655 --> 00:26:58,908 I saw blood dripping onto the carpet. 412 00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:04,164 I have collected enough to start defending myself. 413 00:27:05,790 --> 00:27:07,709 I pushed them away and fought back. 414 00:27:08,418 --> 00:27:10,754 There were two. If I pushed one away, 415 00:27:10,837 --> 00:27:14,466 the other would hit me, and if I pushed her away, 416 00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:17,552 she would come back first and attack me again. 417 00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:19,471 At one point 418 00:27:20,221 --> 00:27:21,931 Mei dropped her club. 419 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,226 I managed to grab her. 420 00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:29,439 I started swinging wildly. I know I hit people. 421 00:27:30,607 --> 00:27:33,318 In the end, they managed to snatch it from my hand. 422 00:27:36,529 --> 00:27:41,743 Mei took the stick, put it close to me on the neck and began to press. 423 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:46,414 I was trying to raise my hands and push her away. 424 00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:51,252 Then Rosa appeared with a gun which she pressed against my chest. 425 00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:55,048 She ordered me to stop. 426 00:28:00,220 --> 00:28:01,971 I stopped resisting. 427 00:28:04,224 --> 00:28:06,559 At that moment... 428 00:28:09,813 --> 00:28:14,067 Mei asked me if I would give it up custody of his daughter. 429 00:28:15,235 --> 00:28:16,152 After that 430 00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:19,698 Rosa rehearsed the gun. 431 00:28:25,745 --> 00:28:26,996 I was very scared. 432 00:28:30,417 --> 00:28:32,419 I stared at the gun. 433 00:28:32,502 --> 00:28:35,422 Mei asked me again will i relinquish custody. 434 00:28:35,964 --> 00:28:38,466 She said she was with me and that he wants to help me, 435 00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:40,093 but that Rosa will harm me. 436 00:28:44,222 --> 00:28:47,809 I said I would give up custody. 437 00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:53,648 My daughter was locked out in a dark bathroom. 438 00:28:55,483 --> 00:28:58,069 I heard her shout: "Daddy, daddy!" 439 00:29:07,787 --> 00:29:10,331 I couldn't do anything for her. 440 00:29:12,959 --> 00:29:14,961 And I didn't want to die. 441 00:29:23,136 --> 00:29:24,512 I was very afraid. 442 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,109 When I heard the sirens, 443 00:29:38,193 --> 00:29:39,736 Rosa still had the gun. 444 00:29:39,819 --> 00:29:43,698 I thought you would at any moment could have shot me. 445 00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:46,034 17.58 446 00:29:48,536 --> 00:29:51,498 When responding to a report of a shooting, 447 00:29:51,581 --> 00:29:53,374 everything goes through your head. 448 00:29:53,458 --> 00:29:57,670 The closer you are, the more adrenaline rises. 449 00:29:57,754 --> 00:29:59,088 You don't know what awaits you. 450 00:30:00,548 --> 00:30:03,259 We entered through the garage. 451 00:30:04,093 --> 00:30:07,263 As we entered, we heard shouting and fighting upstairs. 452 00:30:08,723 --> 00:30:11,518 A male voice shouted: 453 00:30:11,601 --> 00:30:14,270 "Please don't kill me. I don't want to die." 454 00:30:17,232 --> 00:30:19,651 My partner and I reached the top of the stairs. 455 00:30:20,652 --> 00:30:22,111 There were blood stains. 456 00:30:23,154 --> 00:30:27,367 Tasers, bullets and batons 457 00:30:28,618 --> 00:30:30,578 they were scattered in the corridor. 458 00:30:31,162 --> 00:30:34,040 We saw a man and a woman in the corridor. 459 00:30:34,123 --> 00:30:35,875 He had his back turned. 460 00:30:35,959 --> 00:30:39,879 The woman was looking towards us. We saw blood running down her face. 461 00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:44,342 Try to decipher who is the suspect and who is the victim 462 00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:45,844 it was quite difficult. 463 00:30:47,262 --> 00:30:49,597 Since we didn't know who the suspect was, 464 00:30:49,681 --> 00:30:53,643 we asked them to show us their hands 465 00:30:53,726 --> 00:30:54,769 and they don't move. 466 00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:59,732 Unfortunately, the man did not follow these instructions. 467 00:31:00,316 --> 00:31:02,694 He ran from the hallway to the bedroom. 468 00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:06,364 They shouted at me not to move, 469 00:31:06,865 --> 00:31:10,702 but Rosa threatened me with a gun. 470 00:31:11,286 --> 00:31:15,915 Went there because I knew that Rosa will not be able to hit me. 471 00:31:17,041 --> 00:31:19,502 All I could think about was how to escape. 472 00:31:20,003 --> 00:31:24,883 At that moment, in order to overcome him, my partner stunned him. 473 00:31:24,966 --> 00:31:28,469 That's how we got control over the situation. 474 00:31:28,553 --> 00:31:30,597 The stun gun was strong. 475 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,057 I was convulsing. I couldn't move. 476 00:31:35,184 --> 00:31:37,020 Eric shouted 477 00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:41,441 that it is his two-year-old daughter in the bathroom upstairs. 478 00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:44,485 There was a mirror in the hallway. 479 00:31:44,569 --> 00:31:46,905 I saw a reflection of another person in him 480 00:31:46,988 --> 00:31:49,407 who was hiding in the room opposite. 481 00:31:51,534 --> 00:31:55,788 Then we realized that there were two women in the house. 482 00:31:55,872 --> 00:32:00,752 We later identified one as Mei, and Rosa was in the bedroom. 483 00:32:03,838 --> 00:32:06,007 They didn't know what was going on, 484 00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:10,845 so they handcuffed us all, and they put me in a police car. 485 00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:13,932 Mei was in the ambulance. 486 00:32:16,017 --> 00:32:20,021 Rosa stood on the lawn for a long time in front of the house, handcuffed. 487 00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:25,318 Then they found my daughter locked in the bathroom. 488 00:32:25,401 --> 00:32:27,070 They called social services. 489 00:32:27,654 --> 00:32:30,490 While I was locked in the police car, 490 00:32:31,074 --> 00:32:35,203 I saw a social worker how he grabs my daughter's hand 491 00:32:35,286 --> 00:32:37,038 and walks away from home with her. 492 00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:41,417 Upstairs were two women of smaller build. 493 00:32:42,001 --> 00:32:45,213 Eric Hill was also there, which is much larger. 494 00:32:45,296 --> 00:32:48,883 It was difficult to determine who attacked whom. 495 00:32:49,801 --> 00:32:52,637 Rosa was unusually calm. 496 00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:58,726 She didn't look like anyone who participated in the fierce conflict. 497 00:32:59,686 --> 00:33:03,856 Mei was also calm and very calculated. 498 00:33:04,357 --> 00:33:05,733 Yeah, weird. 499 00:33:07,568 --> 00:33:09,070 At the time of that incident 500 00:33:09,153 --> 00:33:13,366 I was a detective with the Dublin Police for three years. 501 00:33:13,449 --> 00:33:16,619 18.03 502 00:33:16,703 --> 00:33:20,498 When we are partners and I came to the scene of the crime, 503 00:33:20,581 --> 00:33:23,292 Eric was in the patrol car. 504 00:33:23,376 --> 00:33:24,711 He was amazed. 505 00:33:24,794 --> 00:33:26,004 He was sweating. 506 00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:28,840 He was a mess. 507 00:33:28,923 --> 00:33:33,344 He was trying to get attention to everyone who passed by 508 00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:35,221 and ask where his grandmother is. 509 00:33:36,848 --> 00:33:39,976 Eric screamed, “She's somewhere. 510 00:33:40,059 --> 00:33:41,811 They did something to her." 511 00:33:41,894 --> 00:33:45,231 There was fear in his voice. 512 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:49,652 We were very worried then that we can't find Sally. 513 00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:51,612 She was not a driver. 514 00:33:51,696 --> 00:33:54,907 She did not leave the house without someone's help. 515 00:33:54,991 --> 00:33:56,284 She had to be there. 516 00:33:57,952 --> 00:33:58,953 Behind you. 517 00:34:01,748 --> 00:34:04,709 We'll start in the hallway, and then search the rooms. 518 00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:09,047 During the search, I went upstairs and saw that there was no one in the house. 519 00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:10,381 Nobody in the rooms. 520 00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:13,176 So where was Sally? 521 00:34:15,636 --> 00:34:17,430 They searched Mei and Rosa. 522 00:34:17,513 --> 00:34:20,892 They found a gun in Rose's pocket. 523 00:34:21,517 --> 00:34:25,938 That's what we were led to believe that they are suspicious, not Eric. 524 00:34:26,731 --> 00:34:30,151 Eric lived in that house. He had a reason to be there. 525 00:34:30,777 --> 00:34:33,196 Rosa and Mei had no reason to be there. 526 00:34:33,279 --> 00:34:35,490 They never lived there. 527 00:34:37,241 --> 00:34:41,037 Based on what we knew and the circumstances that existed, 528 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,501 we arrested Mei and Rosa due to suspicion of a criminal offense. 529 00:34:47,502 --> 00:34:52,173 That event was much more from a case of domestic violence. 530 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,593 He was much more sinister than we expected. 531 00:34:57,303 --> 00:35:02,183 When we found out that Rosa had gun in her pocket, we had to question her. 532 00:35:04,185 --> 00:35:05,561 EIGHT OF JANUARY 2009. 533 00:35:05,645 --> 00:35:07,897 00.56 534 00:35:08,481 --> 00:35:12,860 My partner and I took her to the station. 535 00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:14,779 QUIET - CONVERSATION IN PROGRESS 536 00:35:16,322 --> 00:35:19,951 She said they were constantly argued over custody 537 00:35:20,034 --> 00:35:22,703 and that this is why she was in the house. 538 00:35:23,204 --> 00:35:24,789 I didn't see anyone. 539 00:35:24,872 --> 00:35:27,792 I entered the room and called them. 540 00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:35,007 Still no one answered, so I continued to enter. 541 00:35:35,716 --> 00:35:37,218 Have you seen grandma? 542 00:35:37,301 --> 00:35:38,177 Not. 543 00:35:38,928 --> 00:35:40,388 Where was she? 544 00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:41,889 I have no idea. 545 00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:47,854 She said they were waiting for Eric to come. 546 00:35:48,521 --> 00:35:51,983 She said Eric went crazy when he arrived. 547 00:35:53,734 --> 00:35:58,781 He threw me on the floor and I hit my head. 548 00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,326 At one point I saw a gun in his hand. 549 00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:04,620 I was afraid they would shoot me. 550 00:36:04,704 --> 00:36:09,000 When he dropped the gun, I picked it up. 551 00:36:09,083 --> 00:36:11,043 I guess I put it in my pocket. 552 00:36:11,127 --> 00:36:12,837 We knew he was playing a game. 553 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:18,467 She played the role of a very passive, 554 00:36:18,551 --> 00:36:23,890 silent and innocent victims. 555 00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:27,310 I was suspicious 556 00:36:27,393 --> 00:36:30,688 that she entered a house that was not hers. 557 00:36:31,439 --> 00:36:32,815 Sally wasn't there. 558 00:36:32,899 --> 00:36:34,650 Why did she enter the house? 559 00:36:34,734 --> 00:36:38,070 She did not say that she entered the house to visit Sally. 560 00:36:38,571 --> 00:36:40,489 That's not why she came in. 561 00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:43,367 We knew he was deceiving us. 562 00:36:43,451 --> 00:36:48,372 She avoided our questions and answered them differently. 563 00:36:48,456 --> 00:36:51,500 The only question was how much he was deceiving us. 564 00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:56,505 In the middle of a conversation with Rosa 565 00:36:56,589 --> 00:37:02,303 he called my partner one of the crime scene detectives 566 00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:06,766 and informed him that they had found Selma. 567 00:37:12,104 --> 00:37:13,648 We searched the yard. 568 00:37:15,483 --> 00:37:19,278 On the side we found a locked shed. 569 00:37:20,529 --> 00:37:22,740 When we studied that shed, 570 00:37:22,823 --> 00:37:25,868 we saw a trash can through the crack in the door. 571 00:37:25,952 --> 00:37:28,871 We saw sheets in the trash can 572 00:37:28,955 --> 00:37:31,832 which looked strange to us. 573 00:37:31,916 --> 00:37:34,585 Who keeps the sheets in the bin in the shed? 574 00:37:34,669 --> 00:37:38,005 We found pliers and opened the shed. 575 00:37:39,465 --> 00:37:41,425 We haven't done anything yet 576 00:37:41,509 --> 00:37:44,011 when we saw something sticking out of the sheet 577 00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:47,265 which looks like a human foot. 578 00:37:47,974 --> 00:37:50,643 Of course, we were stunned. 579 00:37:52,687 --> 00:37:57,024 It turned out to be Sally Hill, which we later identified. 580 00:37:58,567 --> 00:38:02,989 It was clear that she did not die of natural causes. 581 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:08,077 Someone killed her and put her into the trash can upside down. 582 00:38:12,623 --> 00:38:15,334 I know that people are capable of atrocity, 583 00:38:16,043 --> 00:38:21,173 but I would never have thought so that they would do such a thing to my mom. 584 00:38:22,591 --> 00:38:24,969 What can you even say to that? 585 00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:28,806 It's a terrible thing to do to anyone, 586 00:38:28,889 --> 00:38:33,436 but to a 91-year-old woman that wouldn't hurt anyone? 587 00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:40,234 QUIET - CONVERSATION IN PROGRESS 588 00:38:41,527 --> 00:38:45,072 When we found out that they found grandma in the shed, 589 00:38:45,948 --> 00:38:48,826 we had someone who was in the house. 590 00:38:49,577 --> 00:38:51,495 She said there was no one, 591 00:38:51,579 --> 00:38:53,622 and at the same time she entered the house. 592 00:38:53,706 --> 00:38:56,542 We knew we were talking to the right person. 593 00:38:56,625 --> 00:39:00,588 She said she never met her grandmother at all. 594 00:39:01,422 --> 00:39:05,301 She said she went through the house, but that she didn't see her at all. 595 00:39:05,801 --> 00:39:09,221 My partner asked her: "And outside? 596 00:39:09,305 --> 00:39:10,848 Did you see the shed?” 597 00:39:11,432 --> 00:39:16,771 When he asked that question, she had a physical reaction 598 00:39:17,521 --> 00:39:19,690 in memory of the shed. 599 00:39:19,774 --> 00:39:22,943 Her lip trembled before she answered. 600 00:39:23,027 --> 00:39:24,820 She said she didn't see the shed. 601 00:39:24,904 --> 00:39:28,491 We took a break because we wanted to exchange opinions. 602 00:39:28,574 --> 00:39:30,159 "Did you see that too?" 603 00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:33,537 We saw both her physical reaction. 604 00:39:36,332 --> 00:39:40,711 After two days they arrived Sally Hill's autopsy results. 605 00:39:40,795 --> 00:39:44,507 The cause of death was determined to be strangulation. 606 00:39:45,132 --> 00:39:50,513 She had several cuts and a scratch on the body. 607 00:39:51,097 --> 00:39:53,599 They discovered defensive wounds on the hands. 608 00:39:53,682 --> 00:39:56,227 She seemed to be resisting. 609 00:39:57,144 --> 00:39:59,688 DUBLIN POLICE CENTER FOR PUBLIC SAFETY 610 00:40:00,773 --> 00:40:03,859 Although they are all involved were at the crime scene, 611 00:40:03,943 --> 00:40:05,611 the investigation did not stop there. 612 00:40:05,694 --> 00:40:08,155 We had to link the weapons 613 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,575 at the crime scene with Rosa and Mei 614 00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:16,956 and make sure we refute her claim 615 00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:19,166 that it was Eric's weapon, 616 00:40:19,250 --> 00:40:22,545 which he threatened to her and her mother Mei. 617 00:40:26,215 --> 00:40:29,718 At the crime scene there were two tasers, 618 00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:31,762 two stuns 619 00:40:31,846 --> 00:40:33,305 and two pistols. 620 00:40:34,223 --> 00:40:35,975 So, everything in pairs. 621 00:40:36,058 --> 00:40:39,228 That's why I concluded that it is about two people 622 00:40:39,311 --> 00:40:42,690 who entered and planned to commit a crime. 623 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:46,527 We found evidence that was suspicious, 624 00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:48,279 backpack on the side of the house. 625 00:40:49,155 --> 00:40:51,699 In a black backpack we found some items. 626 00:40:51,782 --> 00:40:55,536 Black and green rope, arrows, 627 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,456 hunting knife. 628 00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:04,670 In addition, we found a shuriken, glass cutter and 45 cm lever. 629 00:41:05,337 --> 00:41:09,383 It was a burglary and kidnapping kit. 630 00:41:09,884 --> 00:41:12,887 Rosa's car was found half a block away. 631 00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:16,891 We found some items of concern. 632 00:41:17,975 --> 00:41:19,643 Primarily a samurai sword 633 00:41:20,186 --> 00:41:22,521 and leg shackles. 634 00:41:26,859 --> 00:41:29,195 When we investigate a murder, 635 00:41:29,278 --> 00:41:34,116 we usually look for any useful evidence in the suspect's residence. 636 00:41:34,992 --> 00:41:36,952 I discovered a location in Brentwood 637 00:41:37,036 --> 00:41:40,206 where Rosa and Mei received their mail. 638 00:41:41,749 --> 00:41:44,418 We searched the house in Brentwood 639 00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:46,045 and we got lucky. 640 00:41:47,421 --> 00:41:51,550 When we walked through the door, we have uncovered numerous evidences 641 00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:53,636 connected to the crime scene. 642 00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:58,057 We found a tag on a 32-caliber weapon 643 00:41:58,140 --> 00:42:00,476 like Rosa had with her. 644 00:42:01,894 --> 00:42:06,482 We found handwritten notes which were unusual and suspicious. 645 00:42:08,108 --> 00:42:10,986 One read "revenge for Rosa". 646 00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:13,239 There were several people on the list. 647 00:42:13,322 --> 00:42:18,786 They were on that list Gregory, Eric and Sally Hill. 648 00:42:19,912 --> 00:42:22,331 The notes were written by two people. 649 00:42:22,414 --> 00:42:26,502 Therefore, we know that Rosa wrote some notes and Mei some others. 650 00:42:26,585 --> 00:42:29,463 Both participated in the planning. 651 00:42:30,631 --> 00:42:34,134 A month before the murder Rosa wrote in the message: 652 00:42:34,218 --> 00:42:37,137 "Save the BB", i.e. the baby. 653 00:42:37,805 --> 00:42:39,431 She mentioned the acquisition of weapons 654 00:42:39,932 --> 00:42:43,018 and that he must practice shooting. 655 00:42:44,395 --> 00:42:46,605 The planning that preceded 656 00:42:46,689 --> 00:42:50,192 it started at least a month before the murder, 657 00:42:50,276 --> 00:42:52,987 and I believe it lasted for months. 658 00:42:55,948 --> 00:43:00,035 We found notes that confirm that Rosa stalked Eric. 659 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,038 She wrote down when she came home 660 00:43:03,622 --> 00:43:07,501 and when they saw him coming pick up their child in kindergarten. 661 00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:12,172 She must have planned the best time 662 00:43:12,256 --> 00:43:16,927 to get rid of Eric and take custody of the child. 663 00:43:18,345 --> 00:43:21,307 We also found several computers. 664 00:43:21,890 --> 00:43:26,312 One of the things that stood out in a forensic computer search 665 00:43:26,395 --> 00:43:29,857 was a Google search for "how to kill". 666 00:43:30,441 --> 00:43:34,111 She searched for poisoning and explosives. 667 00:43:34,194 --> 00:43:38,866 She researched the best way to kill without being discovered. 668 00:43:40,951 --> 00:43:45,247 All the evidence was in favor an increasingly strong case against her 669 00:43:45,331 --> 00:43:47,750 and she could no longer feign self-defense. 670 00:43:47,833 --> 00:43:51,337 It was a clear case premeditated actions. 671 00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:56,884 One of the items we sent for DNA testing was an electric shocker 672 00:43:56,967 --> 00:43:59,637 who was in the room on the first floor of the house. 673 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:05,017 DNA on the prongs of the stun gun Selma Hill's DNA matched. 674 00:44:05,601 --> 00:44:09,897 In addition, the DNA on the handle and Rosa Hill answered on the key. 675 00:44:11,523 --> 00:44:12,691 Based on that 676 00:44:12,775 --> 00:44:18,739 we concluded that Rosa Hill used a Taser on Sally Hill 677 00:44:18,822 --> 00:44:23,702 and in the end she killed her on January 7, 2009. 678 00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:34,672 Despite her efforts to cover his tracks, it's ironic 679 00:44:34,755 --> 00:44:39,968 that we found all the evidence needed to seal her fate. 680 00:44:43,055 --> 00:44:48,018 That was the most thoughtful thing premeditated murder 681 00:44:48,102 --> 00:44:54,274 which I have come across in 26 years, since I have been working as a state prosecutor. 682 00:44:54,983 --> 00:44:57,194 When Eric had a baby, 683 00:44:57,277 --> 00:45:02,282 Rosa and her mother came up with a plan which they called "operation guardianship". 684 00:45:04,493 --> 00:45:06,537 The plan of operation guardianship was 685 00:45:06,620 --> 00:45:11,208 restoration of legal rights to child Rose Hill. 686 00:45:12,126 --> 00:45:16,672 In order to achieve this, they planned to kill Eric's grandmother 687 00:45:17,631 --> 00:45:19,800 and blame Eric for the murder 688 00:45:20,592 --> 00:45:24,054 and get Eric to write confession that he killed her 689 00:45:24,138 --> 00:45:28,600 because she confronted him with child sexual abuse. 690 00:45:28,684 --> 00:45:32,688 And when he got angry, he killed her 691 00:45:32,771 --> 00:45:35,691 and put it in the trash can in the back of the house. 692 00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:38,444 Their plan went even further. 693 00:45:38,527 --> 00:45:41,071 In a moment of despair 694 00:45:41,155 --> 00:45:43,282 Eric Hill should have killed himself, 695 00:45:43,365 --> 00:45:48,245 so no one but Rose Hill he would not be entitled to legal custody. 696 00:45:49,538 --> 00:45:52,416 That would prove it that she was right all along, 697 00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:56,628 that Eric is an abuser, that she did not deceive the court 698 00:45:56,712 --> 00:45:59,840 and that it is legal got her child back. 699 00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:02,843 The life of a 91-year-old woman, 700 00:46:03,343 --> 00:46:06,597 who was innocent, was not important. 701 00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:11,268 She was just part of a bigger plan that Rosa gets custody of the child. 702 00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,566 Rosa Hill was found guilty 703 00:46:17,649 --> 00:46:21,153 for the murder of Selma Sally Hill and the attempted murder of Eric Hill. 704 00:46:21,236 --> 00:46:23,155 She was sentenced to life imprisonment. 705 00:46:23,238 --> 00:46:26,366 Mei Li is condemned for attempted murder with premeditation 706 00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,744 and is serving a life sentence. 707 00:46:31,872 --> 00:46:36,376 My grandmother Sally was at the end of a long and happy life. 708 00:46:37,377 --> 00:46:42,466 She didn't deserve the ending she got. 709 00:46:44,551 --> 00:46:48,931 She was a good woman and she deserved to die peacefully. 710 00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:53,018 Rosa didn't let her do that. 711 00:46:53,894 --> 00:46:56,980 This is what I find unforgivable. 712 00:46:59,358 --> 00:47:00,943 After so many years 713 00:47:01,985 --> 00:47:03,362 I'm still angry. 714 00:47:04,029 --> 00:47:07,449 Extremely angry. 715 00:47:08,575 --> 00:47:11,245 They say you should forgive, 716 00:47:11,328 --> 00:47:16,291 but to forgive some misdeeds it would be an insult to humanity. 717 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,254 It would definitely be an insult to my mom. 718 00:47:24,508 --> 00:47:28,470 Lester loved Sally very much. When she died, he was devastated. 719 00:47:29,179 --> 00:47:31,056 It hit him hard. 720 00:47:32,266 --> 00:47:37,187 When mom died, he wanted some of her ashes. 721 00:47:37,896 --> 00:47:39,773 If I were to visit him, 722 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:45,195 he was just looking at the urn and talked to Sally… 723 00:47:45,696 --> 00:47:47,322 It was very sad. 724 00:47:48,156 --> 00:47:49,241 Very sad. 725 00:47:50,742 --> 00:47:53,579 I am grateful for that that they found each other 726 00:47:53,662 --> 00:47:56,582 and spent together eleven last years of his life. 727 00:47:58,166 --> 00:48:04,965 Lester Rowe died less than a year ago after the Sally Hill murder. 728 00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:09,094 How are you now? 729 00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:11,638 I'm fine. 730 00:48:11,722 --> 00:48:13,432 I'm great. 731 00:48:13,515 --> 00:48:15,017 I'm a good father. 732 00:48:15,100 --> 00:48:16,852 I have a good family. 733 00:48:18,145 --> 00:48:20,647 The irony is in that 734 00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:25,611 that I lead such a life as Rosa and I wanted. 735 00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:29,489 She missed everything. 736 00:48:32,117 --> 00:48:34,286 It's not easy being a single father. 737 00:48:36,121 --> 00:48:40,500 My daughter has become a wonderful woman. 738 00:48:41,418 --> 00:48:43,462 She is reasonable. 739 00:48:43,545 --> 00:48:45,380 She is a gifted artist. 740 00:48:46,715 --> 00:48:50,135 I'm proud to have been a part of it. 741 00:50:14,594 --> 00:50:18,348 Translation of subtitles: Andrea Šimunić